JOCELYN BODEN: And I explained to them that based on my moral and belief system, I was not going to degrade that by falsifying my speech and say that she was a "he."

Bath & Body Works fired a long-time manager when she refused to call a female employee by male pronouns. @1stLiberty is representing the ex-manager. @bathbodyworks pic.twitter.com/RJHQawhVAC

— toddstarnes (@toddstarnes) July 16, 2025

Jocelyn Boden is the fired store manager at Bath & Body Works.  Stephanie Taub is her lawyer at 1stLiberty.  

2:25.  Keep in mind with businesses this large that all of these are anonymous complaints.  So I don't know if it was this new associate.  I don't know if it was anyone else on the team.  I can only make assumptions about that because the complaint that was made against me was anonymous.  So I couldn't even face the person who made the complaint.  So when I spoke with HR my district manager, the incident that created the complaint was on April 26th.  I worked with this employee, this new associate after hiring her. One time, one evening where I called her a "she," and when it was brought to my attention by some other associates in one of my managers that I needed to call this associated "he" because that is what this associate wished.  And I explained to them that based on my moral and belief system, I was not going to degrade that by falsifying my speech and say that she was a "he."  By that following Tuesday within just a few days, that was Saturday the 26th that Tuesday afternoon I got a voicemail from my HR department saying that I needed to call them back because of the complaint made against me and so I called them that afternoon and we had a conversation about the complaint along with other things that were clearly said in retaliation toward me about some other things they that some other complaints that were made against me, the big one being I would not use the pronoun of this associate.

4:00.  Stephanie [Taub] this is mind-boggling and I wonder if this is an isolated case are you guys seeing these kinds of issues happening in other workplaces?  

4:12.  Unfortunately we've been seeing these sorts of complaints and they seem to be increasing or at least they have been a pretty steady portion over the past few years and so this is an unfortunate Trend that's happening and workplaces across the country and we're hopeful that the EEOC and federal courts will put a stop to this because for much needed clarity for these businesses because this cannot go on.  They absolutely need to respect their religious liberty rights of employees across the country because too many people are being forced into the position that Jocelyn was in forced to violate your faith or lose your job.  

4:56.  You know Jocelyn I've got to tell you I'm pretty impressed here because I have to imagine it would have been pretty easy to say, "Yeah, all right, no problem, no problem," but you really did take a stand based on your religious belief.  Was that a difficult decision for you to make?

5:13.  No, no, it wasn't difficult.  What is right is right.  What is true is true. What is reality is reality. There's no meanness involved in that.  There's no judgment and cruelty involved with that.  That is just basic science.  It's just basic reality, so it was not a hard decision to say what I said that night at work.  In fact, it was very freeing, and to be that honest about what I believe in, what I knew to be true, what I know to be real.  And then I was very grateful to find First Liberty who also saw that reality of Truth and have agreed to be with me during this fight.  So, no, it wasn't difficult.  

In LAUSD, they'll tell you you have no faith, or certainly any right to it.